tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33103854.post2179583844470036361..comments2023-05-22T14:15:21.482+02:00Comments on Karsten Wagner's Blog: What makes a programming language 'more productive'Karsten Wagnerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09652404623625038743noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33103854.post-35027499354205917392007-01-10T02:29:00.000+01:002007-01-10T02:29:00.000+01:00@Ricky Clarkson:
I don't think that we should con...@Ricky Clarkson:<br /><br />I don't think that we should continue to distinguish between programming languages and programming environments. The usability and productivity of a system depends on both. And the days of command line compilers and primitive editor should be history.<br /><br />@Harald Korneliussen:<br /><br />I don't see a reason why to distinguish between code reuse and code Karsten Wagnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09652404623625038743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33103854.post-34944188948800241342007-01-09T21:43:00.000+01:002007-01-09T21:43:00.000+01:00I agree that code re-use is a very good measure of...I agree that code re-use is a very good measure of productivity, but I <b>strongly</b> disagree with your take on Haskell. I've read the discussion on reddit you point to - and it seems that you're still thinking too much in the imperative style. It does take much longer to become proficient enough in Haskell to write good code than it does in most other languages I've tried, but once you do Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33103854.post-41217194858009667862007-01-08T14:24:00.000+01:002007-01-08T14:24:00.000+01:00After reading (and participating) in such discussi...After reading (and participating) in such discussions for years, I am beginning to question some of the fundamental assumptions.<br /><br />1) The concept of "equally skilled" is often used in the sense of"having an equal level of skill" rather than "posessing exactly the same skillset". I don't think it's possible to put programming compentence in a single linear order. <br /><br />2) In the "uncialhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15225671465200387626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33103854.post-54144038535940755122007-01-08T11:42:00.000+01:002007-01-08T11:42:00.000+01:00Much better than the "OO is dead" posts, thank you...Much better than the "OO is dead" posts, thank you.<br /><br />You've hit the nail on the head with regards to code reuse and limiting options. Why can't we express ourselves in all the ways we want? Because we are programmers, not expressionist painters. I remember how I've been frustrated by this with the theorem prover HOL, where the moment you stepped out of the standard proofs, people would Harald Korneliussenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909854185625282505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33103854.post-69787373133016030452007-01-08T10:11:00.000+01:002007-01-08T10:11:00.000+01:00Other ways aren't artificially made much more diff...Other ways aren't artificially made much more difficult in Java, they're just not artificially made much more easy. Assembly is hard...Harald Korneliussenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909854185625282505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33103854.post-6705824369246220412007-01-08T01:25:00.000+01:002007-01-08T01:25:00.000+01:00This post seems to be about programming environmen...This post seems to be about programming environments, not programming languages, where a programming environment is the language, APIs, available prior code and tools.<br /><br />The language itself doesn't have the final say on how reusable code will be.<br /><br />Which reminds me, I'd love to see a code duplication detection tool that can remove the duplicates. Intelligently.Ricky Clarksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13845104548520132930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33103854.post-35406296417457055252007-01-07T19:48:00.000+01:002007-01-07T19:48:00.000+01:00@Serguey Zefirov:
Yes, it may be possible to over...@Serguey Zefirov:<br /><br />Yes, it may be possible to overcome the problem by writing all code in way that it uses monadic return values ('use do everywhere'). But this would in the result make Haskell a different language. And it's also not done in the Haskell standard libs. Please take a look at the reddit discussion to my 'experiences with Haskell' article <a href='http://Karsten Wagnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09652404623625038743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33103854.post-12374238300301339902007-01-07T16:01:00.000+01:002007-01-07T16:01:00.000+01:00Your chess metaphor is off. If your goal is to ha...Your chess metaphor is off. If your goal is to have fun, you're right. If your goal is to beat your opponent, I would much prefer the club. The goal is to get things done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33103854.post-33736285309704361632007-01-07T15:43:00.000+01:002007-01-07T15:43:00.000+01:00I believe you've overlooked the maintain ace cost....I believe you've overlooked the maintain ace cost.Weapon Liuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13732095794841692525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33103854.post-7709865096476187312007-01-07T12:09:00.000+01:002007-01-07T12:09:00.000+01:00Actually, you slightly wrong about monads.
They a...Actually, you slightly wrong about monads.<br /><br />They are used to modularize a piece of code and work inside some piece of code.<br /><br />On output you get pure functions anyway (except for quite exceptionable IO monad).<br /><br />You can parametrize your code by some monad-oriented class to choose particular monad later, and so on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33103854.post-64847247268862100642007-01-07T09:39:00.000+01:002007-01-07T09:39:00.000+01:00I'm not talking about the 'perfect programming lan...I'm not talking about the 'perfect programming language'. I'm talking about ways to improve productivity. Like finishing a project in 5 man years instead of 20. Or maybe even in 2. Or 1.<br /><br />If a project is equal to a previous one, code reuse is easy: It's called 'buying software from stock'. Most people have used this way of code reuse.<br /><br />But if the problem is different it's alsoKarsten Wagnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09652404623625038743noreply@blogger.com